Why This Episode Matters
Goals-of-care conversations can profoundly shape serious illness care, but in many health systems they remain difficult to find, inconsistently documented, and hard to measure. In this episode, Matthew Gonzales and Deborah Unger describe how Providence treated serious illness communication as a systemwide quality problem, combining leadership commitment, clinician training, nursing engagement, informatics, and AI to make “what matters” conversations more visible and actionable across 51 hospitals.
Key Ideas Explored
Why goals-of-care documentation became a “conversation in the haystack” problem
How Providence made serious illness communication a system priority, not a palliative care side project
Why training physicians alone did not move the needle, and how nurses became critical to implementation
The tension between standardized documentation and preserving the humanity of the conversation
How AI helped identify meaningful goals-of-care conversations without relying on checkboxes or dot phrases
Takeaways for Quality Leaders
Treat important clinical conversations as part of system design, not just individual clinician skill.
Build measurement only after defining what meaningful quality looks like in practice.
Engage the disciplines closest to the workflow; nursing involvement may reveal implementation paths leaders miss.
Avoid designing metrics that reward documentation behavior while missing the underlying clinical purpose.
Look for AI use cases where language, workflow burden, and quality measurement intersect.
Continue the Conversation
Dr. Gonzalez -
Email: Matthew.Gonzales@providence.org
Dr. Unger -
Email: Deborah.Unger@providence.org
Bluesky: @qoflmd.bsky.social
Resources & Frameworks Referenced
Leading Quality is a podcast for healthcare leaders committed to improving systems, culture, and outcomes.
If you found this episode valuable, follow the show, rate and review the podcast, or share it with a colleague working to improve care.
Connect with Jason Meadows on LinkedIn for more insights on healthcare quality and leadership.
Help us build this podcast community from the ground up: share your top insight from this episode and where you’re seeing it in your own work. I read every response and will share what we’re learning over time in future episodes and other ways.
New episodes published every other Thursday at 7AM Eastern Time.
Credits:
Host, Writer, and Executive Producer
Jason Meadows, MD
Produced by
Thrive Healthcare Improvement
Edited by
Milan Milosavljevic
